The Vaccine Thread

[Blue Valkyrie]

Oxford/AZ jab now being cancelled for under 30s, I imagine anyone between 30-50 would be highly sceptical on taking it now. Why is it unsafe for them but safe for us??

I've had 1 AZ dose. Would it be better now to have 2 moderna/pfizer, or 1 JandJ when it arrives, rather than the 2nd AZ ?

 

[Sussexscots]

Oxford/AZ jab now being cancelled for under 30s, I imagine anyone between 30-50 would be highly sceptical on taking it now. Why is it unsafe for them but safe for us??

I think the answer is that in the over 50's, the benefit of getting the vaccine and protecting yourself from Covid outweighs the small risk of blood clots developing.

In younger people, the balance is more nuanced as the risk to them from Covid is drastically lower.

I don't think it's a case of it being inherently 'safe or 'unsafe.

 

[atomised]

Oxford/AZ jab now being cancelled for under 30s, I imagine anyone between 30-50 would be highly sceptical on taking it now. Why is it unsafe for them but safe for us??

Personally I will gladly take the 1 in a million chance with no scepticism at all so if you don't want yours let me know

 

[Hotchilidog]

I've had 1 AZ dose. Would it be better now to have 2 moderna/pfizer, or 1 JandJ when it arrives, rather than the 2nd AZ ?

I'm not sure but I think the very small risk occurs in the first two weeks following jab 1. At least that is what I have discerned from the rather confusing messages that are coming out from all this. I've had the AZ jab and would have no qualms about having a second jab. Of course I'll leave it up to the professionals to decide what is best, as I am NOT a doctor!

No medicine is side effect free, it is important that this is understood. It appears that may have been a link to a handful of deaths that has be weighed up against the millions of people who have had the jab and are protected. These blood clots are rare and they remain so. Given how the messaging has been handled though I would not blame some people from being reticent about taking the AZ jab and preferring an alternative.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Oxford/AZ jab now being cancelled for under 30s, I imagine anyone between 30-50 would be highly sceptical on taking it now. Why is it unsafe for them but safe for us??

Are you suggesting that if you're 50, you ought to wait until 51 because there si no reason to be highly sceptical at 51?

Slightly more seriously, this CVST is known to be more prevalent in 20-30 year old women than in any other group. Which may be why the apparent link to cases of CVST in AstraZeneca vaccine-takers is more prevalent in 20-30 year old women. This disease affects that age group specifically; if, as appears possible, the chances of getting CVST after a jab are 1 over 100,000 greater than before, then it's the ones with the higher risk who it is more likely to affect.

Incidentally, 20 million people go out in their car every day. 6 of them don't come back. Is is as safe to walk to the surgery and have the jab than it is to drive to the surgery and come back without having had it. [Illustration not to be taken too literally - it is just an illustration!]

 

[beorhthelm]

I think the answer is that in the over 50's, the benefit of getting the vaccine and protecting yourself from Covid outweighs the small risk of blood clots developing.

In younger people, the balance is more nuanced as the risk to them from Covid is drastically lower.

I don't think it's a case of it being inherently 'safe or 'unsafe.

the risk in any age group is same in the general population. you have more risk of a fatal accident on the way to take the jab. because of the numbers being vaccinated, a few clot incidents have come through within the window after having the jab.

the caution from regulator is because this rate is higher than the risk of dying from covid in lower age group.

 

[beorhthelm]

I've had 1 AZ dose. Would it be better now to have 2 moderna/pfizer, or 1 JandJ when it arrives, rather than the 2nd AZ ?

on basis its consequence of immune responce (if where any link), you'd best off with the AZ as you know how you reacted to that jab.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

on basis its consequence of immune responce (if where any link), you'd best off with the AZ as you know how you reacted to that jab.

Good point.

 

[Hamilton]

Let's put this into perspective. Regardless of age, and based upon the numbers vaccinated to date, you are 6 times more likely to die or be seriously injured in a car accident than you are to get a blood clot from having the jab.

Now, are you going to never get in a car again?

 

[dsr-burnley]

the risk in any age group is same in the general population. you have more risk of a fatal accident on the way to take the jab. because of the numbers being vaccinated, a few clot incidents have come through within the window after having the jab.

the caution from regulator is because this rate is higher than the risk of dying from covid in lower age group.

Not true, actually. 1 in 30,000 or so people aged between 20 and 30 have died of or with coronavirus in the past year. Bearing in mind that the number who have had coronavirus is only a fraction of the total, the chances of dying of cornavirus at age 20-30 assuming that you have caught it, are probably more like 1 in 5,000.

The caution from the regulator is because there is evidence, though not enough for proof, that the AstraZeneca vaccine is slightly less safe than the Pfizer vaccine for under-30s. If AstraZeneca was all we had got, then they wouldn't be advising people not to have it.

 

[Hamilton]

Oxford/AZ jab now being cancelled for under 30s, I imagine anyone between 30-50 would be highly sceptical on taking it now. Why is it unsafe for them but safe for us??

Because as of yesterday 31,622,348 out of 31,622,367 hadn't died after having their first dose, and because there is still no causal link between the jab and the clots.

According to Thrombosis UK, every 37 seconds someone in what they call the 'western world' dies from a blood clot, so it is not uncommon. 19 of those unfortunate deaths appear to be involving people who have had the jab.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Is there a reason under 30s can’t take the AZ jab if they want to?

I imagine millions would take it still

 

[A1X]

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[nicko31]

On this basis removing all restrictions on 21st June seems unwise, there will still be circa 13m adults unvaccinated.

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[beorhthelm]

original plan had younger age groups going without the jab until end of summer, and targets to open were based on that. we are still ahead of plan so there is no sensible reason to slow ease of restrictions.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

On this basis removing all restrictions on 21st June seems unwise, there will still be circa 13m adults unvaccinated.

How many of those 13 million have got anti bodies via infections etc.

The plan was always to have younger people vax after the opening and we are ahead of where we thought we would be.

 

[A1X]

How many of those 13 million have got anti bodies via infections etc.

The plan was always to have younger people vax after the opening and we are ahead of where we thought we would be.

The more unvaccinated people you have at the point of reopening, the greater the risk of creating (or transmitting one of the examples already here) variants which reduce the effectiveness of the vaccine, or (in the worst case scenario) manage to evade it entirely. At which point we're back to square one.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

How many of those 13 million have got anti bodies via infections etc.

The plan was always to have younger people vax after the opening and we are ahead of where we thought we would be.

How long do antibodies last? My understanding that it is approximately six months after a viral infection but don't know about Covid,

 

[dsr-burnley]

How long do antibodies last? My understanding that it is approximately six months after a viral infection but don't know about Covid,

Mumps. Measles and Rubella are viruses, and one jab as a baby provides immunity for life.

 

[dsr-burnley]

The more unvaccinated people you have at the point of reopening, the greater the risk of creating (or transmitting one of the examples already here) variants which reduce the effectiveness of the vaccine, or (in the worst case scenario) manage to evade it entirely. At which point we're back to square one.

On the other hand, we have been told that the Brazil version of the virus can't take hold because the Kent version is dominant. If we bust a gut to eliminate the Kent version, would that make room for the Brazil version?