[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Titanic]

Missile hits HQ of Russia's Black Sea navy in Crimea

A missile has hit the headquarters of Russia's Black Sea navy in Crimea, a local Moscow-appointed official says

Videos on social media show smoke billowing from the building - we are working to verify images as they emerge

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66888101

 

[raymondo]

Missile hits HQ of Russia's Black Sea navy in Crimea

A missile has hit the headquarters of Russia's Black Sea navy in Crimea, a local Moscow-appointed official says

Videos on social media show smoke billowing from the building - we are working to verify images as they emerge

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66888101

Nice... Ukraine really turning up the heat on Crimea.

 

[fly high]

Nice... Ukraine really turning up the heat on Crimea.

Backs up what was on yesterdays video.

 

[crookie]

Sky reporting US now agreed to send ATACMS missiles to Ukraine. Another positive step

 

[raymondo]

Sky reporting US now agreed to send ATACMS missiles to Ukraine. Another positive step

Yes, but Davydov says it's not yet certain the type of warhead that will be fitted to them...

 

[fly high]

Sky reporting US now agreed to send missiles to Ukraine. Another positive step

Wish the US just get on with giving Ukraine what it needs to win instead of drip feeding the essentials. No you can't have tanks.....well OK then. No you can't have planes........well OK then. No you can't have long range missiles.......finally, eventually they agree. How many Ukrainian lives would have been saved if all this equipment had been given ages ago.

 

[crookie]

Wish the US just get on with giving Ukraine what it needs to win instead of drip feeding the essentials. No you can't have tanks.....well OK then. No you can't have planes........well OK then. No you can't have long range missiles.......finally, eventually they agree. How many Ukrainian lives would have been saved if all this equipment had been given ages ago.

Said this months ago. The West should give everything they possibly can as quickly as possible. Ukraine are fighting this war, that, if successful, our conventional forces will never have to fight. They are not asking for our soldiers, just their weapons. We have no conceivable conventional military opponent than Russia. A strategic no-brainer to help Ukraine degrade their conventional forces as decisively as possible.

 

[Eric the meek]

Wish the US just get on with giving Ukraine what it needs to win instead of drip feeding the essentials. No you can't have tanks.....well OK then. No you can't have planes........well OK then. No you can't have long range missiles.......finally, eventually they agree. How many Ukrainian lives would have been saved if all this equipment had been given ages ago.

Some time ago, I speculated about how the US seemed to have got Russia exactly where it wanted it, embroiled in a war it cannot win, but also cannot retreat from, in which Russia is slowly being denuded of power, influence, reputation, and its war chest. I can see/hear the hawks in the Pentagon thinking 'There's no rush. Let Russia eat itself'. By drip feeding ammunition and weapons, the US is avoiding an escalation, but is doing just enough to grind Russia down, doing it at arm's length with very few American boots on the ground. A cynical approach, showing little regard for Ukrainian lives, but this does seem to be what has been happening.

 

[raymondo]

Some time ago, I speculated about how the US seemed to have got Russia exactly where it wanted it, embroiled in a war it cannot win, but also cannot retreat from, in which Russia is slowly being denuded of power, influence, reputation, and its war chest. I can see/hear the hawks in the Pentagon thinking 'There's no rush. Let Russia eat itself'. By drip feeding ammunition and weapons, the US is avoiding an escalation, but is doing just enough to grind Russia down, doing it at arm's length with very few American boots on the ground. A cynical approach, showing little regard for Ukrainian lives, but this does seem to be what has been happening.

And I think if the US went 'all in' with weapon supplies, there's a real risk of a significant Republican backlash that could negatively impact the support to Ukraine. I know...it sucks in many ways, but maybe this is the best Ukraine can get.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Missile hits HQ of Russia's Black Sea navy in Crimea

A missile has hit the headquarters of Russia's Black Sea navy in Crimea, a local Moscow-appointed official says

Videos on social media show smoke billowing from the building - we are working to verify images as they emerge

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66888101

BBC reporting too that the head of the Russian navy was killed in the attack

 

[GT49er]

BBC reporting too that the head of the Russian navy was killed in the attack

Oh dear, what a pity, how sad.

Now for the boats!

 

[crookie]

BBC reporting too that the head of the Russian navy was killed in the attack

Also the Commanding Officer of the Zaporizhia front, and perhaps other senior army officers. Doesn't sound like a coincidence to me. Great job

Sorry, severely wounded, not dead, but out of action at least, according to Business Insider

 

[Eric the meek]

Also the Commanding Officer of the Zaporizhia front, and perhaps other senior army officers. Doesn't sound like a coincidence to me. Great job

Sorry, severely wounded, not dead, but out of action at least, according to Business Insider

I agree. It sounds like foreign intelligence has told the Ukrainians that the senior Russian military were there, or possibly some local Ukrainians, if there are any left.

No member of the Russian military is going to feel safe in Crimea now. The ethnic Russian civilians who have been moved in since the 2014 annexation probably won't be feeling much better.

 

[crookie]

I agree. It sounds like foreign intelligence has told the Ukrainians that the senior Russian military were there, or possibly some local Ukrainians, if there are any left.

No member of the Russian military is going to feel safe in Crimea now. The ethnic Russian civilians who have been moved in since the 2014 annexation probably won't be feeling much better.

Exactly. Find it difficult to comprehend how badly the Russians have played this tactically compared to the Ukrainians. Russia have used thousands of long range and guided missiles against Ukrainian infrastructure or just randomly at residential areas. There have been a few claims of military targets being hit but very few and far between. They must have shocking intelligence if they can't identify military factories, HQ positions arms manufacturing plants etc. Let alone the staging encampments of all these new brigades that were assembling prior to Ukraines counteroffensive.


Compare that to Ukraines tactics in the past month. Airfields, ships, naval repair facilities, bridges, command posts, ammunition dumps, HQ buildings. All to degrade Russias fighting capabilities. Chalk and Cheese

 

[Eric the meek]

Exactly. Find it difficult to comprehend how badly the Russians have played this tactically compared to the Ukrainians. Russia have used thousands of long range and guided missiles against Ukrainian infrastructure or just randomly at residential areas. There have been a few claims of military targets being hit but very few and far between. They must have shocking intelligence if they can't identify military factories, HQ positions arms manufacturing plants etc. Let alone the staging encampments of all these new brigades that were assembling prior to Ukraines counteroffensive.


Compare that to Ukraines tactics in the past month. Airfields, ships, naval repair facilities, bridges, command posts, ammunition dumps, HQ buildings. All to degrade Russias fighting capabilities. Chalk and Cheese

I've been so impressed with the Ukrainians. From their bravery to their stoicism, from their ingenuity to their resilience, from their humour to their absolute determination to win their freedom.

For all these reasons, they will prevail. But their next challenge will be to win the peace.

Crimea has a population of 2.4 million, 76% of whom are ethnic Russians, due partly to historical migrations, but also due to Putin's programme of ethnic cleansing by stealth, between the 2014 annexation and today. Some will no doubt return to Russia, but some will stay. I know I'm jumping ahead here, but Ukraine will need to manage Crimea with kid gloves to avoid giving Putin v2.0 the excuse to agitate and subvert and turn it into another Donbas.

 

[Triggaaar]

But their next challenge will be to win the peace.

Crimea has a population of 2.4 million, 76% of whom are ethnic Russians, due partly to historical migrations, but also due to Putin's programme of ethnic cleansing by stealth, between the 2014 annexation and today. Some will no doubt return to Russia, but some will stay. I know I'm jumping ahead here, but Ukraine will need to manage Crimea with kid gloves to avoid giving Putin v2.0 the excuse to agitate and subvert and turn it into another Donbas.

I think any Russians who moved in post 2014, should simply be sent home. They should be treated properly, but they are Russian, and should go back to Russia. Otherwise the region will constantly be in turmoil, as actual Russians (as opposed to Ukrainians with Russian heritage) will continue to support Russia.

 

[Eric the meek]

More information on the missile strike at Russia's Black Sea fleet HQ in Crimea:

Ukraine claims Sevastopol strike hit navy commanders

Kyiv says senior officials in Russia's Black Sea fleet were present, but did not offer evidence.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Sirnormangall]

Exactly. Find it difficult to comprehend how badly the Russians have played this tactically compared to the Ukrainians. Russia have used thousands of long range and guided missiles against Ukrainian infrastructure or just randomly at residential areas. There have been a few claims of military targets being hit but very few and far between. They must have shocking intelligence if they can't identify military factories, HQ positions arms manufacturing plants etc. Let alone the staging encampments of all these new brigades that were assembling prior to Ukraines counteroffensive.


Compare that to Ukraines tactics in the past month. Airfields, ships, naval repair facilities, bridges, command posts, ammunition dumps, HQ buildings. All to degrade Russias fighting capabilities. Chalk and Cheese

I would guess that the Ukrainian successes and targeting were helped massively by western support and intelligence, but they won’t want to make that public

 

[raymondo]

Hoping this turns out to be true

Military: 34 Russian Black Sea Fleet officers, including commander, killed in Sevastopol strike

Last week's strike against the Russian Black Sea Fleet headquarters in Sevastopol killed 34 Russian officers, including the fleet's commander, and injured 105 more soldiers, the Special Operations Forces Command of Ukraine's Armed Forces said on Sept. 25.

kyivindependent.com

 

[Eric the meek]

What have we got here?

First, Ukraine claim Sokolov was killed in the missile attack on the Sevastopol HQ of the Black Sea fleet.

Then Russia deny he was killed, and post a video of him in a meeting. But the video shows him only on a video link to the meeting, and not in the meeting itself. The clip of him is a less than convincing portrayal of a naval commander full of life. Sokolov doesn't move at all during the clip. Surely it wasn't beyond the Russians to find a clip of him (current or historical) in which Sokolov had a more convincing display of being alive?

For me, I have no idea whether he is alive or dead. The Russian video gave no clue. All it did was to confuse, obfuscate, and raise more questions. Perhaps that was the aim.

Watch the video (and read Michael Clarke's dismissal of it) here:

Ukraine-Russia war latest: Moscow warns it could go to war with NATO over US move - as Germany follows Washington in approving strikes inside Russia with its weapons

Germany has followed the US in approving strikes inside Russia using its weapons - as Moscow warns the moves could cause a war with NATO. Meanwhile, Ukraine reportedly launched a large missile and drone attack overnight.

news.sky.com