Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Yoda]

So how will filling hospitals with people sick from Covid help reduce waiting lists?

CAMHS (and AMHS) are usually run by either Non-Acute Trusts (like Sussex Partnership NHS Foundation Trust here in our area) or the local CCG's, not the Acute Hospital Trusts. Services like this are under pressure NOT because of full Covid wards at Hospitals, but by services being reduced to restrict community contact at a time where more and more people are suffering from Mental Health issues and need access to those services.

What is causing this is not just a back log due to reduced services but also an increase in people needing that help due to Covid, lockdowns, etc....

 

[e77]

CAMHS (and AMHS) are usually run by either Non-Acute Trusts (like Sussex Partnership NHS Foundation Trust here in our area) or the local CCG's, not the Acute Hospital Trusts. Services like this are under pressure NOT because of full Covid wards at Hospitals, but by services being reduced to restrict community contact at a time where more and more people are suffering from Mental Health issues and need access to those services.

What is causing this is not just a back log due to reduced services but also an increase in people needing that help due to Covid, lockdowns, etc....

Absolutely but the broader point that reducing Covid infections will accelerate reducing the backlog still stands.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Deaths and hospitalisations still rising fast and one by one hospitals are being taken out. Just because we won't see a human cull on the scale of last winter when the NHS was overwhelmed that does not make it acceptable

This situation could have been avoided but has been created out of choice. We are now entering an experiment that is condemned by the WHO, BMA, the NHS and numerous experts worldwide; wreckless and unethical...

What I don't understand is what exactly we should be doing. There are lots of objections to lifting stage 4 restrictions, ie. masks, pubs selling drinks from the bar, full houses at football.

And many, like you, put the entire blame on the government. But what is it you want? Are you saying that if only the government hadn't announced these last restrictions to be lifted, then cases would not be rising now? Or are you saying that in May, when stage 3 restrictions were lifted because cases were few and deaths close to nil, we should have been moving closer to lockdown?

Is there not an element that increasing lockdown, and taking it through to next summer at least, is in its own way an experiment that could be described as unacceptable?

 

[Eeyore]

Are you not paying attention to the data?

High cases aren't necessarily a bad thing for us anymore. If anything, it will fast track our herd immunity.

Not sure if the herd immunity thing actually exists, suggestions seem to be it's here forever, like the flu. The virus is constantly mutating. And with the complete opening of society so come its opportunities. I can see why there are some loud voices being heard outwith these shores right now. They don't seem happy.

As regards ending the restrictions, I don't know. I'm no expert. But what I do see is a lot of 'experts' getting a bit worried about how the UK is doing things. Can only wait and see.

 

[The Clamp]

So, are we suppose to stay in lockdown indefinitely? No thanks.

 

[The Clamp]

People were leave going to get didgy towards the end of lockdown. Fewer nervous nellies please.

 

[Hugo Rune]

People were leave going to get didgy towards the end of lockdown. Fewer nervous nellies please.

‘Lockdown’ is when you can only leave your house to go shopping or do ‘one bit’ of exercise per day.

We’ve not been in lockdown for some time.

We will be again however, if vaccines are not resistant to a variant like the Beta strain (coming soon) which is taking a worrying foot hold in France.

 

[A1X]

[tweet]1415950938007875586[/tweet]

 

[A1X]

So, are we suppose to stay in lockdown indefinitely? No thanks.

We haven’t been in lockdown since April. Where have you been?

 

[The Clamp]

‘Lockdown’ is when you can only leave your house to go shopping or do ‘one bit’ of exercise per day.

We’ve not been in lockdown for some time.

We will be again however, if vaccines are not resistant to a variant like the Beta strain (coming soon) which is taking a worrying foot hold in France.

Variants are going to keep occurring until one that is vaccine resistant arises and thrives. It’s what this Covid virus was designed to do in a laboratory in Wuhan.
We either lockdown forever or learn to live with the loss of life. Either way, Covid is here to stay.

 

[The Clamp]

We haven’t been in lockdown since April. Where have you been?

Okay. Living under restrictions.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

‘Lockdown’ is when you can only leave your house to go shopping or do ‘one bit’ of exercise per day.

We’ve not been in lockdown for some time.

We will be again however, if vaccines are not resistant to a variant like the Beta strain (coming soon) which is taking a worrying foot hold in France.

It isn't getting a foothold in mainland France. The French figures include their territories like La Reunion etc, as Beta is the South African strain.

 

[A1X]

Okay. Living under restrictions.

I don't think anyone has seriously claimed we should live under restrictions forever. However to my mind it makes absolute sense to delay "freedom day" by 2 weeks until the schools break up, which removes one of the major drivers of community transmission from the equation. As well as giving however many more people a chance to both get jabbed and gain immunity (remember nobody who has received a second jab since 5th July will have the proper levels of immunity).

 

[The Clamp]

I don't think anyone has seriously claimed we should live under restrictions forever. However to my mind it makes absolute sense to delay "freedom day" by 2 weeks until the schools break up, which removes one of the major drivers of community transmission from the equation. As well as giving however many more people a chance to both get jabbed and gain immunity (remember nobody who has received a second jab since 5th July will have the proper levels of immunity).

I disagree. But we’ll see. There is always going to be a surge after restrictions are lifted. The main reason I think freedom Monday might be a bad idea is because Boris Johnson thinks it is a good idea.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

It isn't getting a foothold in mainland France. The French figures include their territories like La Reunion etc, as Beta is the South African strain.

It is also not breaking the vaccine.

 

[beorhthelm]

I don't think anyone has seriously claimed we should live under restrictions forever. However to my mind it makes absolute sense to delay "freedom day" by 2 weeks until the schools break up, which removes one of the major drivers of community transmission from the equation. As well as giving however many more people a chance to both get jabbed and gain immunity (remember nobody who has received a second jab since 5th July will have the proper levels of immunity).

there are already no restrictions in schools, except staff testing (with zero checks they are doing so). every serious/authoritative objection to lifting restrictions, i've seen no projection of when they might be lifted, implicitly forever or at least until "the virus is gone". i've come round to the view we should retain some restrictions, its clear to do so would be for many months probably until the spring.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I don't think anyone has seriously claimed we should live under restrictions forever. However to my mind it makes absolute sense to delay "freedom day" by 2 weeks until the schools break up, which removes one of the major drivers of community transmission from the equation. As well as giving however many more people a chance to both get jabbed and gain immunity (remember nobody who has received a second jab since 5th July will have the proper levels of immunity).

The thing is, nobody ever directly says they want restrictions forever because they know what the reaction will be. But using your example of two weeks until schools close and a few extra people with full immunity, that won't make the slightest dent in the current situation so if you're not willing to open now you won't be in two weeks. There will always be a reason to not open.

 

[Weststander]

Some rational perspective at this moment, taking a step back from media hyperbole.

The Delta Variant was first identified in the UK on 21 April. Almost three months later, with relatively low deaths numbers, the other two key metrics remain low.

 

[The Clamp]

The thing is, nobody ever directly says they want restrictions forever because they know what the reaction will be. But using your example of two weeks until schools close and a few extra people with full immunity, that won't make the slightest dent in the current situation so if you're not willing to open now you won't be in two weeks. There will always be a reason to not open.

This.
Quite a few scientists have already said that we could have opened up last month with no major difference to numbers.
Get it done. I say keep masks maybe but aside that, if anyone thinks the restrictions in place now are helping reduce infections, you’re either kidding yourself or haven’t been going out and about much. I’m at a major rail station now and there are hundreds of people brushing against one another, touching surfaces, a lot not wearing masks on the concourse. Trust me, taking away the remaining few restrictions will make almost no difference.

 

[A1X]

The thing is, nobody ever directly says they want restrictions forever because they know what the reaction will be. But using your example of two weeks until schools close and a few extra people with full immunity, that won't make the slightest dent in the current situation so if you're not willing to open now you won't be in two weeks. There will always be a reason to not open.

You think removing the primary driver of infections from the equation won’t make any difference?