Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Kinky Gerbil]

This is absurd. What you are saying is that we can save 20,000 lives per year if we all stop indoors, don't speak to anyone, and abolish sport and social events. That's the "new normal".

And for what? As it stands under the old normal, an average person over 80 had a 90% chance of living for at least one more year. What you propose will make it a 90.5% chance if it is a bad flu year, and a 90.2% chance in a good flu year. You are asking them to give up the best year of the rest of their life, for a 1 in 200 or 1 in 500 chance that they will gain a rather less good extra year. As I said, that is absurd.

I’d like to see the numbers of over 80s that have died after they have had the vaccine (not because of the vaccine) , that may shock a few of how many do actually die

 

[crodonilson]

Your posts with the constant references to new normal do come across that way

By new normal I don't mean constant lockdowns but I do mean more emphasis on good hygiene, wearing face masks and social distancing where possible in indoors settings during winter. I think either through government enforcement or public habits much of this will become part of our everyday lives at least in the medium term.

 

[dazzer6666]

I’d like to see the numbers of over 80s that have died after they have had the vaccine (not because of the vaccine) , that may shock a few of how many do actually die

Be interesting to see if that is specifically reported, but if not it'll be fairly easy to understand from the ONS data as they already age-split the death data 'with' Covid (although they use O75-85 and O85, rather than O80). Early data from Israel is suggesting death (and hospitalisation) rates post-vaccination (adding time lag for effectiveness of vaccine) in the elderly are falling rapidly so no reason this shouldn't be repeated here.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

By new normal I don't mean constant lockdowns but I do mean more emphasis on good hygiene, wearing face masks and social distancing where possible in indoors settings during winter. I think either through government enforcement or public habits much of this will become part of our everyday lives at least in the medium term.

That’s not going to happen.

It will be down to people’s choice, if you don’t feel happy in the situation you mention above, don’t go.

As before

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Be interesting to see if that is specifically reported, but if not it'll be fairly easy to understand from the ONS data as they already age-split the death data 'with' Covid (although they use O75-85 and O85, rather than O80). Early data from Israel is suggesting death (and hospitalisation) rates post-vaccination (adding time lag for effectiveness of vaccine) in the elderly are falling rapidly so no reason this shouldn't be repeated here.

Sorry. That’s my bad, I meant of other stuff other than covid.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Sorry. That’s my bad, I meant of other stuff other than covid.

Basing it on 14m over 70's being vaccinated at the start of this month, you would expect about 40,000 of them to die before March. This is based on the average 50,000 deaths per month, a bit more in winter, February being a short month,, and those 14m representing about four-fifths of the people most likely to die.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

At last, my vaccination is booked for Friday afternoon at Brighton Racecourse.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

O look another mutation in the uk

 

[crodonilson]

O look another mutation in the uk

The virus is well on its way to vaccine escape, we just cut chains of transmission through lockdown which will help the vaccines to work more effectively.

 

[dazzer6666]

Sorry. That’s my bad, I meant of other stuff other than covid.

That's all reported as well - the ONS stats are pretty detailed. Link here if you're not aware :

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ndandwalesprovisional/weekending22january2021

 

[The Wizard]

O look another mutation in the uk

11 out of 200000 samples.

I do find it strange that up until about November time there were very few mentions of mutations, I remember Hancock saying the virus seemed to have stayed nearly the same and then now they seem to be discovering a new variant every other day.

Besides that, this variant might be less deadly or less infectious or just a simple rare mutation, best not to assume the worst, that’s what the MSM want. The fact it was only found in 1/18000 samples means it’s clearly not widespread.

For me all this talk of MIGHT be more deadly or MIGHT evade vaccines is utter rubbish, I’ve said this before on this thread but scientific experts using guesswork words like that makes me deeply uncomfortable.

 

[dazzer6666]

The virus is well on its way to vaccine escape, we just cut chains of transmission through lockdown which will help the vaccines to work more effectively.

Not according the the scientists and published by SAGE on Jan 22nd.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...50e-bbb3-8011dd219db8&utm_content=immediately

https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1356571122762993664?s=20

 

[RossyG]

Most want out from this situation but I swear some people are getting some weird neurotic pleasure out of wallowing in doom and gloom.

 

[A1X]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...pe-in-covid-treatments-fails-against-variants

Well...this is a bummer

The antibodies have huge advantages as treatments, said Nick Cammack, who leads the Covid-19 therapeutics accelerator at Wellcome. They are derived from cloning a human white blood cell and mimic the effects of the immune system. They are very safe, specifically engineered to target the virus and their use looked highly promising in the early stage of disease to stop it progressing.

“The challenge came at Christmas when these new variants appeared – the South Africa and Brazil ones particularly. The changes the virus makes in its spike proteins actually throw off these antibodies,” he said.

“So basically, most of the front-running antibody therapies for Covid which are the front-running therapies for Covid, I should say – so the great hope – are lost to the South African and Brazilian variants.”

 

[The Wizard]

Most want out from this situation but I swear some people are getting some weird neurotic pleasure out of wallowing in doom and gloom.

It’s worrying to me that people think mandatory mask wearing or social distance EVERY flu season is now acceptable, I bet he’s not alone either that’s the scary thing. I tell you one thing, as soon as I don’t have to wear a mask I’m never wearing one of the things ever again. Ever.

I think the media are largely responsible for people’s fear, and those people who are scared and don’t see an end in sight can come across as mildly smug when bad news is reported, for example I read that article about the mutations as not really a bad thing, if only 11 out of 200000 have this mutation that shows that with the controls we currently have and sequencing it should be able to be controlled, even if it is a concern for some. Then others will read it as though it’s the end of the world, the vaccines won’t work and that we are never leaving this perpetual cycle of non living, and weirdly seem smug about it because in their world they are right.

 

[dazzer6666]

It’s worrying to me that people think mandatory mask wearing or social distance EVERY flu season is now acceptable, I bet he’s not alone either that’s the scary thing. I tell you one thing, as soon as I don’t have to wear a mask I’m never wearing one of the things ever again. Ever.

I think the media are largely responsible for people’s fear, and those people who are scared and don’t see an end in sight can come across as mildly smug when bad news is reported, for example I read that article about the mutations as not really a bad thing, if only 11 out of 200000 have this mutation that shows that with the controls we currently have and sequencing it should be able to be controlled, even if it is a concern for some. Then others will read it as though it’s the end of the world, the vaccines won’t work and that we are never leaving this perpetual cycle of non living, and weirdly seem smug about it because in their world they are right.

I'm with you on all of the above. Also worth noting that even if variants appear that have more ability to partly circumvent the vaccine, the developers have been very clear in stating the current vaccines (I think in all cases) are easily modifiable

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

11 out of 200000 samples.

I do find it strange that up until about November time there were very few mentions of mutations, I remember Hancock saying the virus seemed to have stayed nearly the same and then now they seem to be discovering a new variant every other day.

Besides that, this variant might be less deadly or less infectious or just a simple rare mutation, best not to assume the worst, that’s what the MSM want. The fact it was only found in 1/18000 samples means it’s clearly not widespread.

For me all this talk of MIGHT be more deadly or MIGHT evade vaccines is utter rubbish, I’ve said this before on this thread but scientific experts using guesswork words like that makes me deeply uncomfortable.

I agree, the problem is that BBC/Sky are giving it as it will evade and it will cause more deaths.

Which means people screaming more more lockdown

What we are also seeing now is a sage “leak” every other day now, is this because the gov have had enough of them?

 

[crodonilson]

It’s worrying to me that people think mandatory mask wearing or social distance EVERY flu season is now acceptable, I bet he’s not alone either that’s the scary thing. I tell you one thing, as soon as I don’t have to wear a mask I’m never wearing one of the things ever again. Ever.

I think the media are largely responsible for people’s fear, and those people who are scared and don’t see an end in sight can come across as mildly smug when bad news is reported, for example I read that article about the mutations as not really a bad thing, if only 11 out of 200000 have this mutation that shows that with the controls we currently have and sequencing it should be able to be controlled, even if it is a concern for some. Then others will read it as though it’s the end of the world, the vaccines won’t work and that we are never leaving this perpetual cycle of non living, and weirdly seem smug about it because in their world they are right.

Mask wearing has become part of common culture in Asia, what is the problem in wearing a mask if it helps protect other people from your germs and any respiratory infection you may be carrying if it saves lives? I don't expect everyone to wear one, less so especially in Summer but if it helps us stop future waves of covid and keeps flu down, plus helps any future viruses from gaining hold it can only be a good thing.

 

[The Wizard]

Mask wearing has become part of common culture in Asia, what is the problem in wearing a mask if it helps protect other people from your germs and any respiratory infection you may be carrying if it saves lives? I don't expect everyone to wear one, less so especially in Summer but if it helps us stop future waves of covid and keeps flu down, plus helps any future viruses from gaining hold it can only be a good thing.

A) I hate wearing masks, I feel like a muzzled animal, it’s not normal and never will be in this country.
B) There’s hundreds of things that would save lives that we don’t do, as an example: reduce motorway speed limits to 30 they’ll be thousands less deaths a year.
C) Social distancing every winter would mean businesses like pubs, bars & say public transport and the like would be doomed, without social distancing masks are much less effective, if you’re standing next to someone on a packed train with a mask on, it isn’t going to stop you catching a virus.
D) There’s plenty of things that are normalised in Asia that certainly aren’t normal to us, just as with any culture.

The only thing I would argue I hope continues after COVID is people practicing better hygiene, I myself when I have to get buses and public transport have become very aware of dirty surfaces etc so hopefully that’s something in future that can be taken forward but aside from that, give me the old normal back.

 

[crodonilson]

A) I hate wearing masks, I feel like a muzzled animal, it’s not normal and never will be in this country.
B) There’s hundreds of things that would save lives that we don’t do, as an example: reduce motorway speed limits to 30 they’ll be thousands less deaths a year.
C) Social distancing every winter would mean businesses like pubs, bars & say public transport and the like would be doomed, without social distancing masks are much less effective, if you’re standing next to someone on a packed train with a mask on, it isn’t going to stop you catching a virus.
D) There’s plenty of things that are normalised in Asia that certainly aren’t normal to us, just as with any culture.

The only thing I would argue I hope continues after COVID is people practicing better hygiene, I myself when I have to get buses and public transport have become very aware of dirty surfaces etc so hopefully that’s something in future that can be taken forward but aside from that, give me the old normal back.

I'm sorry you feel that way, I think they have become part of Asian culture because of the previous respiratory outbreaks so I don't think it is particularly to do with their culture, and now we have suffered so badly I expect many people will continue to wear masks out of politeness and to enhance their safety, particularly if there are going to be ever new variants and the impact of being vaccinated lessens. I know when I go outside now I feel much more safe knowing I and others are wearing masks to help each other.

I mean by social distancing where possible, I'll be honest when restrictions are relaxed I'll be very nervous in crowded places because I have become so used to trying to avoid people for the past 12 months. I think common discipline of staying a distance apart when queueing for example in supermarkets would be good practice rather than the old norms of breathing down the person in front of you. It is up to the government whetrher they believe indoor capacities should be capped but I would guess it will be somewhat down to personal choice to decide whether to go somewhere you know will be crowded.