Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Billy the Fish]

Seems mad dropping it. As someone with covid at the moment, and travel to the US states booked for April - if it wasn't for my positive PCR from the NHS and the ability to get a 'recovered' certificate, then there is a risk I'd test positive for international travel still in 2 months time.

How will people manage that for countries that still require testing to get in?

Surely some testing will be available, you'll just have to pay for it?

That's what I assumed anyway, same for LFTs. Could be wrong.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Haha, Canadian 'freedom' protesters caught out being interviewed with a Tim Horton's cup instead of microphone:

[Tweet]1493658397467680768[/Tweet]

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Possibly they are envisaging covid being dealt with the same way as flu.

So anything we are doing for covid, that we don’t do for flu- will be going pretty quickly.

General flu strategy is- people (mostly) stay at home if ill, offer annual jab to elderly etc.

So anything beyond that possibly is envisaged as no longer required, which includes home testing.

I guess that’s the way it will go - it’s just a matter of ‘when’.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Possibly they are envisaging covid being dealt with the same way as flu.

So anything we are doing for covid, that we don’t do for flu- will be going pretty quickly.

General flu strategy is- people (mostly) stay at home if ill, offer annual jab to elderly etc.

So anything beyond that possibly is envisaged as no longer required, which includes home testing.

I guess that’s the way it will go - it’s just a matter of ‘when’.

A genuine question, is COVID now "just like flu" to the extremely vulnerable, or does additional allowance need to be made for them? i.e. LFT testing for visitors!

 

[dsr-burnley]

A genuine question, is COVID now "just like flu" to the extremely vulnerable, or does additional allowance need to be made for them? i.e. LFT testing for visitors!

Certainly no harm in doing the testing. For that matter, there would be no harm in doing flu testing for visitors as well, if an equivalent test was available.

According to death certificates, the death numbers involving flu and pneumonia are about twice the number involving coronavirus, even though coronavirus has been so prevalent this year. I think the risk (certainly for the fully vaccinated) has dropped to below the flu risk for people who catch the infection; obviously the fact that coronavirus is circulating far more than flu skews the figures, but if you use the LFT test to stop the infected getting in, the odds are heavily in your favour.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Certainly no harm in doing the testing. For that matter, there would be no harm in doing flu testing for visitors as well, if an equivalent test was available.

According to death certificates, the death numbers involving flu and pneumonia are about twice the number involving coronavirus, even though coronavirus has been so prevalent this year. I think the risk (certainly for the fully vaccinated) has dropped to below the flu risk for people who catch the infection; obviously the fact that coronavirus is circulating far more than flu skews the figures, but if you use the LFT test to stop the infected getting in, the odds are heavily in your favour.

Thanks for reply. Couple of points though. The repetition of “fully vaccinated” doesn’t help or apply to those who are fully vaccinated, yet have next to no idea whether the vaccine has any efficacy for their condition or for those who are unable to have the vaccine for medical reasons.

Secondly, you say the prevalence of Covid skews the figures in comparison to flu, when surely that is actually part of the problem for the vulnerable, the prevalence of its circulation in the general public.

Lastly, though not covered by you, flu is largely seasonal, so an additional degree of mitigation can be gained by the vulnerable, by not having visitors to the home during flu “season”.

These are the sort of decisions some people have to make on a daily basis...
https://bloodcancer.org.uk/support-for-you/coronavirus-covid-19/covid-vaccine-blood-cancer/when-stop-shielding/
...so having a little thing like access to free LFT test kits for the vulnerable doesn’t seem so unreasonable (to me, anyway) and hopefully sense will prevail to give this small crumb of comfort to those in need.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

A genuine question, is COVID now "just like flu" to the extremely vulnerable, or does additional allowance need to be made for them? i.e. LFT testing for visitors!

Sorry this graph is a couple of weeks old but does show - in terms of fatalities - covid is now on a par with flu.

The other measure of extreme cases - covid ICU admissions- is also very low-

There are apparently 192 district health authorities so each one is dealing with approx 2 ICU patients now? Surrey and Sussex currently have zero-

These next ones show flu admissions consistently very low - possibly flu has been supplanted by covid at the moment- not sure how the current covid numbers compare to a ‘pre covid’ flu year- I guess we have limited historic data on flu cases- beyond hospital numbers as no one was testing for it as a matter of course.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Sorry this graph is a couple of weeks old but does show - in terms of fatalities - covid is now on a par with flu.

The other measure of extreme cases - covid ICU admissions- is also very low-

There are apparently 192 district health authorities so each one is dealing with approx 2 ICU patients now? Surrey and Sussex currently have zero-

These next ones show flu admissions consistently very low - possibly flu has been supplanted by covid at the moment- not sure how the current covid numbers compare to a ‘pre covid’ flu year- I guess we have limited historic data on flu cases- beyond hospital numbers as no one was testing for it as a matter of course.

Some lovely graphs there, which shows the risk for the general population, clearly ignoring and not answering my original question, is Covid no less dangerous to the clinically extremely vulnerable then flu.

You know, the people who for the best part of the last two years have been told to stay indoors, or you’re gonna die!

Also, probably the people who, along with the elderly, are making up the bulk of the daily deaths currently.

Yep, for the average Joe (and Covid deniers of old) it is now just a bit of a cold, no worse than flu, etc., but for many it is still a death sentence, which is why a simple measure, like providing free test kits for the extremely vulnerable (and those they share a home with) should continue, which again was a central part of my original question.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Apologies for not answering your point!

Yes the stats seems to cover the whole population and do not break down into risk categories. This doc has plenty of breakdowns by age group but that is not what you’re asking-

https://assets.publishing.service.g...054000/Weekly_Flu_and_COVID-19_report__w6.pdf

Yes possibly they will continue free tests for the more vulnerable- I would expect some measures for those folk in the announcements next week.

Is there a limit on how many tests you can order at the moment? Eg could you just order a pack of 7 online every day and have them delivered to you and stockpile for future use? I appreciate the query is whether free tests will continue to be offered- but that could help as a stopgap.

Hope you get the news you are looking for next week [emoji106]

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Apologies for not answering your point!

Yes the stats seems to cover the whole population and do not break down into risk categories. This doc has plenty of breakdowns by age group but that is not what you’re asking-

https://assets.publishing.service.g...054000/Weekly_Flu_and_COVID-19_report__w6.pdf

Yes possibly they will continue free tests for the more vulnerable- I would expect some measures for those folk in the announcements next week.

Is there a limit on how many tests you can order at the moment? Eg could you just order a pack of 7 online every day and have them delivered to you and stockpile for future use? I appreciate the query is whether free tests will continue to be offered- but that could help as a stopgap.

Hope you get the news you are looking for next week [emoji106]

I think, as with most Government announcements it’s policy by soundbite.

The general rule now appears to be a) leak a proposal b) wait for people with real knowledge to point out the flaws in the proposal c) release plan (complete with tweaks as “advised” by those in the know) and claim this was the plan all along.

Quite clever really, as it means your ministers don’t actually need to know anything about the speciality of their Ministerial department, as they get all their advice, free from social media and news outlets!

I am fairly confident, as enough scientists and medical bodies have said the vulnerable should continue to receive free LFT tests, that that will continue to be the case for now!

As to your question about ordering kits, you can in fact, at present order a pack of 7 test kits every day, for every adult household member who has a separate email address - I now have a spare room full of toilet rolls, flour, pasta and LFT kits!

 

[beorhthelm]

I think, as with most Government announcements it’s policy by soundbite.

The general rule now appears to be a) leak a proposal b) wait for people with real knowledge to point out the flaws in the proposal c) release plan (complete with tweaks as “advised” by those in the know) and claim this was the plan all along.

Quite clever really, as it means your ministers don’t actually need to know anything about the speciality of their Ministerial department, as they get all their advice, free from social media and news outlets!

government has run like that for decades, difference is social media diseminates the leak more widely and faster than before. ministers having any expertise in thier department has been the exception rather than the rule. they rely on advisors and the department senior civil servants, they set some policy, make some decisions, led heavily from that managment (cf every home secretary since about 2000 be pro-ID cards despite no interest before taking the job).

anyway, the reported change is to end free testing except for the vulnerable, hospitals and high risk settings. the debate will be had between DHSC and Treasury how wide the definitions of those are to workout how much funding still needed. "scientists warning" we must keep all testing forever are not in position to have to worry about the cost and waste of that. contrary to some reports, we dont rely on LFT to detect new variants or progress of virus, thats done through PCR and ongoing REACT and Covid Infection Survey thats still running.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I now have a spare room full of toilet rolls, flour, pasta and LFT kits!

Smart thinking!

I do wonder about care homes. If they don't provide free testing, at one test every time a resident has a visitor, it's going to be a significant cost. I reckon it will still be free for those that need it. Hope so, anyway.

 

[Springal]

Yes possibly they will continue free tests for the more vulnerable- I would expect some measures for those folk in the announcements next week.

Is there a limit on how many tests you can order at the moment? Eg could you just order a pack of 7 online every day and have them delivered to you and stockpile for future use? I appreciate the query is whether free tests will continue to be offered- but that could help as a stopgap.

Hope you get the news you are looking for next week [emoji106]

Yes - we've managed to order a pack each, for 3 consecutive days this week no problem

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

government has run like that for decades, difference is social media diseminates the leak more widely and faster than before. ministers having any expertise in thier department has been the exception rather than the rule. they rely on advisors and the department senior civil servants, they set some policy, make some decisions, led heavily from that managment (cf every home secretary since about 2000 be pro-ID cards despite no interest before taking the job).

anyway, the reported change is to end free testing except for the vulnerable, hospitals and high risk settings. the debate will be had between DHSC and Treasury how wide the definitions of those are to workout how much funding still needed. "scientists warning" we must keep all testing forever are not in position to have to worry about the cost and waste of that. contrary to some reports, we dont rely on LFT to detect new variants or progress of virus, thats done through PCR and ongoing REACT and Covid Infection Survey thats still running.

I've seen Yes Prime Minister and Boris Johnson IS Jim Hacker personified.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A genuine question, is COVID now "just like flu" to the extremely vulnerable, or does additional allowance need to be made for them? i.e. LFT testing for visitors!

I've recently had two hospital appointments (ie two weeks) and had to do an LFT before each one.
I'm having a PCR test tomorrow morning and then isolating for three days to have my cataract operation on Tuesday. That's what the NHS want me to do. It isn't optional.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I've recently had two hospital appointments (ie two weeks) and had to do an LFT before each one.
I'm having a PCR test tomorrow morning and then isolating for three days to have my cataract operation on Tuesday. That's what the NHS want me to do. It isn't optional.

Likewise re the PCR ..but not lft for any appointments

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

I've recently had two hospital appointments (ie two weeks) and had to do an LFT before each one.
I'm having a PCR test tomorrow morning and then isolating for three days to have my cataract operation on Tuesday. That's what the NHS want me to do. It isn't optional.

My wife has to have a Covid swab taken, in the hospital car park, 2 days before each of her treatments, so at least someone is taking things seriously still.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Likewise re the PCR ..but not lft for any appointments

One was for the Eye hospital and the other Orthopaedics at PR. It was in my letters, as being required.

 

[LamieRobertson]

One was for the Eye hospital and the other Orthopaedics at PR. It was in my letters, as being required.

I guess they all have different requirements..mine was for a procedure on my face…Southlands….ex due this coming week for an op on her ear at Worthing, same requirements.
Have to say the nurse who did my pcr was excellent …I tend to gag when I’ve done my lft

 

[crodonilson]

SAGE warning today cases could rise by as much as 80% when isolation ends and if people return to pre pandemic behaviours, we need to ensure the latter is not the case, it's not over yet folks we should still exercise some caution.