Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Seagull27]

The skyrocketing cases in Europe isn't solely down to low vaccination rates - as observed in countries with high vaccination rates also seeing a surge in cases at the moment.

The goal has always been to 'flatten the curve' which we have done through persistently high cases. I have no idea whether this was deliberate - if it was the intention, the government could never have publicised this - but it has certainly worked.

Much of Europe has had persistently low cases... until now, where there is an outbreak in cases which is out of control - a wave.

The ONLY option for them is to lockdown - a full lockdown - if only for a few days, such as a firebreak. We'll see them all do this in the coming days.

But in Austria the hospitalisations are skyrocketing as well. This is due to low vaccine rates, as we aren't seeing this (comparatively) in other countries, like ours, with higher vaccine rates.

How often do they keep locking down though? What happens if in the spring they still don't have high vaccine uptake, and hospitalisations go up again?



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[Kinky Gerbil]

But in Austria the hospitalisations are skyrocketing as well. This is due to low vaccine rates, as we aren't seeing this (comparatively) in other countries, like ours, with higher vaccine rates.

How often do they keep locking down though? What happens if in the spring they still don't have high vaccine uptake, and hospitalisations go up again?



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I’d like to see the vaccination rate since they introduced the unvaccinated lockdown.


Seems you have to give that a chance to work?

 

[Hamilton]

Our persistently high and steady case rates over the last few months is a key contributing factor as to why we're doing better than much of Europe right now...

Luckily more people didn't choose to wear masks over the last few months, otherwise we could be on a dangerous upward trajectory right now too....

We're still stable. Waves = bad, steady bumpy line = good.

The only issue there is that we've spanked our NHS to death and there's very little room for manoeurve now.

 

[Hamilton]

What restrictions are you talking about?

Are you saying we could avoid unwanted restrictions by imposing unwanted restrictions?

I love an obtuse post.

 

[Motogull]

The goal has always been to 'flatten the curve' which we have done through persistently high cases. I have no idea whether this was deliberate

I thought it was pretty obviously deliberate.

Sweden going for vaccination passes now.

That'll flummox a now banned NSCer.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Riots kicking off in Holland, can’t imagine Austria are far behind

 

[dazzer6666]

I thought it was pretty obviously deliberate.

That'll flummox a now banned NSCer.

Hope not……some of the weirder shit aside, Swanny’s encyclopaedic football knowledge and considered views are always good to read.

 

[Weststander]

Watching some recorded C5 Jeremy Vine progs from the last few weeks. Panelists tend to be newspaper columnists who are ultra confident about absolutely everything and anything, know it alls. Sometimes Dr Sarah Jarvis joins them.

It’s remarkable how Vine and many of his guests painted the UK as a lone shitstorm of Covid in the world. Jarvis emphatically said that the “whole of Europe spent the summer wearing masks and had vaccine passports”. Utter tosh, governments and populaces pursued a wide variety of strategies. She/they know no more about it than us, possibly less. German callers to UK radio shows today said they were astonished by the blasé attitude of Austrian hotels and Austrians when holidaying there in the summer. The Dutch removed the face masks rule on 21 June.

Is it laziness or an agenda from these celeb guests? How about doing a little research before generalising on TV/radio.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Watching some recorded C5 Jeremy Vine progs from the last few weeks. Panelists tend to be newspaper columnists who are ultra confident about absolutely everything and anything, know it alls. Sometimes Dr Sarah Jarvis joins them.

It’s remarkable how Vine and many of his guests painted the UK as a lone shitstorm of Covid in the world. Jarvis emphatically said that the “whole of Europe spent the summer wearing masks and had vaccine passports”. Utter tosh, governments and populaces pursued a wide variety of strategies. She/they know no more about it than us, possibly less. German callers to UK radio shows today said they were astonished by the blasé attitude of Austrian hotels and Austrians when holidaying there in the summer. The Dutch removed the face masks rule on 21 June.

Is it laziness or an agenda from these celeb guests? How about doing a little research before generalising on TV/radio.

From memory Holland opened up fully for a week or so?

 

[beorhthelm]

Watching some recorded C5 Jeremy Vine progs from the last few weeks. Panelists tend to be newspaper columnists who are ultra confident about absolutely everything and anything, know it alls. Sometimes Dr Sarah Jarvis joins them.

It’s remarkable how Vine and many of his guests painted the UK as a lone shitstorm of Covid in the world. Jarvis emphatically said that the “whole of Europe spent the summer wearing masks and had vaccine passports”. Utter tosh, governments and populaces pursued a wide variety of strategies. She/they know no more about it than us, possibly less. German callers to UK radio shows today said they were astonished by the blasé attitude of Austrian hotels and Austrians when holidaying there in the summer. The Dutch removed the face masks rule on 21 June.

Is it laziness or an agenda from these celeb guests? How about doing a little research before generalising on TV/radio.

one might say taking a holiday abroad is tending towards blase, rather than cautiously staying at home. the media and commentators love to run down this country across many issues, you'd think we're the only european nation with any social problems. on covid we might not have a great performance, we're small % differences from our neighbours (going by the official data, which is suspect for some). looking at excess mortality, we bubble along similar to others, though had half the year below average.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Austria vax rate pretty standard and very similar to uk- so not sure why it is being reported as an unusually low take-up?

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

There is a mythical link between vaccination rates and this current outbreak of cases in Europe. Netherlands is also seeing a troubling rise in cases as well for example, even though their uptake is very good, better than ours.

But cases don't equate to hospitalisations. Countries with high vaccination rates will see considerably fewer hospitalisations between now and over the next couple of weeks as the wave subsides. Austria might not fare so well.

Us on the other hand, our 'strategy' (undecided whether it was deliberate, but it certainly has been successful), has been to have a persistently high number of cases for months, resulting in a 'flattened curve' which has always been the aim since the beginning of the pandemic. Another wave is still possible, but it can not be as dramatic or dangerous as what Europe is experiencing right now... but there is still plenty of time to go until we are out of the woods.

I see what you mean- we have had pretty consistent medium level case numbers since Aug - due to full re-opening? Other European case numbers look initially suppressed but are now rocketing up

 

[CHAPPERS]

Austria vax rate pretty standard and very similar to uk- so not sure why it is being reported as an unusually low take-up?

Boosters a difference also

 

[dsr-burnley]

Austria vax rate pretty standard and very similar to uk- so not sure why it is being reported as an unusually low take-up?

One reason is that those figures aren't accurate. According to EU stats, the surprisingly high figures for Portugal and Spain are because those appear to be the numbers for only 1 jab. Certainly Portugal must be wrong unless they are jabbing 11 year olds and under, because I refuse to believe that literally everyone in the country has been double jabbed.

The UK has approx 81% (54m) of its people eligible to have been double vaccinated, and 46m of them have been fully vaccinated. That's 85%. Virtually nobody under 18 has been fully vaccinated because they weren't eligible for the first jab since September unless they are medically vulnerable.

Austria has been vaccinated 12 year olds since May. Of their total population, 89% are eligible to be fully vaccinated and 64% have been - 64 out of 89 is 72%. There's a lot of the difference - we have 15% eligible but unvaccinated, they have 28% eligible but unvaccinated. Hence the worry about the high number of refuseniks.

So even though the total figures are not wildly different, the problem Austria has is that they have far more adults unvaccinated than we have. The numbers look less bad for them because they have more children fully vaccinated, but children aren't the ones filling the hospitals.

 

[Weststander]

One reason is that those figures aren't accurate. According to EU stats, the surprisingly high figures for Portugal and Spain are because those appear to be the numbers for only 1 jab. Certainly Portugal must be wrong unless they are jabbing 11 year olds and under, because I refuse to believe that literally everyone in the country has been double jabbed.

The UK has approx 81% (54m) of its people eligible to have been double vaccinated, and 46m of them have been fully vaccinated. That's 85%. Virtually nobody under 18 has been fully vaccinated because they weren't eligible for the first jab since September unless they are medically vulnerable.

Austria has been vaccinated 12 year olds since May. Of their total population, 89% are eligible to be fully vaccinated and 64% have been - 64 out of 89 is 72%. There's a lot of the difference - we have 15% eligible but unvaccinated, they have 28% eligible but unvaccinated. Hence the worry about the high number of refuseniks.

So even though the total figures are not wildly different, the problem Austria has is that they have far more adults unvaccinated than we have. The numbers look less bad for them because they have more children fully vaccinated, but children aren't the ones filling the hospitals.

Exactly.

Professor Linda Bauld said as much on BBC news this morning, when asked to compare and contrast..

She also mentioned that the overwhelming majority of UK residents would one way or another now have immunity to the highly virulent Delta variant, whereas much of the continent had been initially sheltered from it, not now.

Other academic guests mentioned 5m Brits avoiding the vaccines, 2m Austrians which per capita is the equivalent of 15m here.

 

[dazzer6666]

Exactly.

Professor Linda Bauld said as much on BBC news this morning, when asked to compare and contrast..

She also mentioned that the overwhelming majority of UK residents would one way or another now have immunity to the highly virulent Delta variant, whereas much of the continent had been initially sheltered from it, not now.

Other academic guests mentioned 5m Brits avoiding the vaccines, 2m Austrians which per capita is the equivalent of 15m here.

Heard similar but think it was a different source. Essentially suggesting we have ‘herd immunity’ (‘well over 90%’ was suggested) in the UK through a combination of vaccinations and allowing cases to trip along at a ‘high’ (but manageable in terms of hospitalisations - again due to the vaccination effect) level, including letting it ‘rip’ through schools knowing the kids were unlikely to get seriously ill.

 

[Driver8]

Riots kicking off in Holland, can’t imagine Austria are far behind

If the unvaccinated are not prepared to be either vaccinated or comply with any new restrictions, and their health service cannot cope, is it time to tell them they are on their own if they get ill?

I’m not sure what other options there are.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

If the unvaccinated are not prepared to be either vaccinated or comply with any new restrictions, and their health service cannot cope, is it time to tell them they are on their own if they get ill?

I’m not sure what other options there are.

Are they not complying? I don’t know

Without a passport they can’t get in places, so I’m not sure how many are not complying.

Germany following Austria.

 

[LamieRobertson]

If the unvaccinated are not prepared to be either vaccinated or comply with any new restrictions, and their health service cannot cope, is it time to tell them they are on their own if they get ill?

I’m not sure what other options there are.

Should an ‘over the limit’ driver be denied hospital treatment if involved in a car accident? Or say the obese (through over eating), should they have their stomachs stapled? how far do you take the suggestion

 

[Driver8]

Should an ‘over the limit’ driver be denied hospital treatment if involved in a car accident? Or say the obese (through over eating), should they have their stomachs stapled? how far do you take the suggestion

If there was unlimited capacity everyone would be treated but there isn’t. Surely those that have tried their best to avoid infection (by getting vaccinated) should be prioritised over those who haven’t?

I’d happily see drunk drivers denied treatment but that’s a different argument.