Gene Simmons ( Kiss ) giving it straight

[Pevenseagull]

You could say the same about flu, but no one’s urging me to get the vaccine for that. The chances of being reinfected are incredibly small, the chances of being very ill with it is also are very small, so I’ll take my chances thanks. People can get the vaccine as much as they want, if it does the job then it should protect them, they don’t need me to have it.

... except they are urging people to have a flu jab, maybe The Beano isn't covering it.

I've got mine next week which is the latest I've had it in years, should have got it sorted earlier but I was in hospital in London having running repairs for cystic fibrosis when the appointments came available.

As one of the oldest people in the UK with CF (50) I've got a reasonable handle on respiratory disease ... otherwise I'd be dead by now. Fortunately for youngsters with CF the prognosis is much better, thanks to things like vaccines and all that voodoo shit and most kids will now reach at least as grand an old age as I have .. and probably in much better nick than I am. ****ing medicine eh?

..... and your last sentence is nonsense ... you really haven't been paying attention/ just plain can't get your head 'round it all.

never mind

good luck

 

[wellquickwoody]

Why? He might spread the disease to your friends/family...

Then my friends and family should make sure that they have been vaccinated themselves to reduce their own risk.

And someone else might spread flu or measles which can also kill. No mandate for that in most places as far as I know.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Heightened by the fact we live in a state with a power drunk totalitarian/authoritarian at the helm.

The powers he wishes to grant himself are obscene.

To quote Christopher Blanden QC, president of the Victorian Bar...

"Blanden said that the Stasi police in former East Germany “would have been more than happy with the range of powers if they were given it”.


No reason this kind of thing couldn't happen in other places.

It's people like those in this thread who embolden Governments to push for as much power as they can to control the population.

Well said .

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

So it seems that all this is in reference to new laws for declaring a pandemic in the future. My concerns are more about they way we are coming out of this one. I would like to be told that things will get back to normal for both vaxed and non vaxed people, and when this will happen.

In terms of the new legislation

Blandan has said that his comment was hyperbolic

"Interviewed by Virginia Trioli on ABC Radio Melbourne on Thursday, Blanden was asked if he considered the Stasi reference a “bit of hyperbole”. To which he responded, with complete frankness: “Well, of course it’s a bit of hyperbole but it has got everyone’s attention.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/in...e/news-story/2af1025ce74cd0972b84544ecbd5ff5f

Much like The article in the Australian - no surprise there

The Guardian seems a little more balance and gives a good overview of the concerns of the bill.

What are people’s concerns with the legislation?

The Victorian opposition leader, Matthew Guy, argues the legislation is “the most extreme of its kind” and an “attack on democracy” because it imbues too much power in the premier to make the pandemic declaration. He vowed to dump the legislation if elected at the 2022 state election.

The Law Institute of Victoria also raised concerns that the declaration can be in place indefinitely, with wide powers conferred on the premier, health minister and authorised officers.

“Many powers appear to be an unnecessary infringement on democratic rights and freedoms, with little oversight offered by a truly independent body,” it said.
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The institute said there was also no timeframe for the maximum period of detention, or clarity on where people would be detained, and there was no independent external merits review on the detention review process.

It said the privacy protections do not go far enough, and the allowance for the sharing of personal information for “permitted purposes” should be reconsidered.

The Victorian Bar has said there is “grossly insufficient” parliamentary oversight of the new pandemic order powers granted to the health minister, and a disallowance of an order should not require approval of both houses of parliament.

The bar recommended the bill be amended to limit the orders the minister can make to specific actions, like mask mandates or restricting movements, and any catch-all power to make other orders have a time limit unless both houses of parliament approve.

The Victorian Bar called for the bill to be delayed until the issues raised had been considered and the bill amended.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-new-laws-work-and-why-are-they-controversial

the ABC fact check page also seem to have a fairly balanced take on the prospective legislation.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11...-andrews-new-proposed-pandemic-laws/100613606

It looks to me like their is certainly cause for some concern but not quite as dramatic as previously made out. Hopefully these will be addressed in parliament as the bill passes through. I also hope that the bar association gets to discuss the document too.

That a politician with one stroke of his pen can put us all into lockdown again is very concerning.



There's a video I've just seen of either a politician or health officer saying the following on the Today morning show.


"Life will be miserable without being vaccinated. You won’t be able to hide. You will have a very lonely life and you're not going be able to maintain your employment."


This kind of language shows what absolute flogs the rabid pro vaxxers are and how they view people who won't get a vaxx.

They are talking about creating a pariah group in society, all over a ****ing poxy virus.

No doubt we'd be able to find them talking about people's mental health somewhere and exposing their fake concerns for it.

 

[BadFish]

That a politician with one stroke of his pen can put us all into lockdown again is very concerning.

I am interested to read what you are reading as it seems very different to what I found this morning.

From what I was reading earlier it seems more like a A Minister, Chief Medical Officer and Health Minister. With a number of oversights also and the ability for the Victorian parliament to disallow the order.

Is there any oversight?

Aside from new requirements for the public health advice to be released publicly, there will also be a requirement to publish to the parliament a statement of reasons for why the orders are being brought in. The minister must also publish a statement on how it complies with human rights obligations, including how limitations on human rights are needed under the orders.

There will also be an independent pandemic management advisory committee of experts and community representatives. The advice from the committee will be tabled in parliament.

A pandemic order can also be disallowed by the Victorian parliament. Orders can be reviewed by the parliament’s scrutiny of acts and regulations committee and if they report back that the orders lack legal authority or are incompatible with human rights, they can recommend they be disallowed.

It would require a resolution of both houses of parliament for the disallowance to go into effect, however.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-new-laws-work-and-why-are-they-controversial

There's a video I've just seen of either a politician or health officer saying the following on the Today morning show.


"Life will be miserable without being vaccinated. You won’t be able to hide. You will have a very lonely life and you're not going be able to maintain your employment."


This kind of language shows what absolute flogs the rabid pro vaxxers are and how they view people who won't get a vaxx.

They are talking about creating a pariah group in society, all over a ****ing poxy virus.

No doubt we'd be able to find them talking about people's mental health somewhere and exposing their fake concerns for it.

This is the part that is concerning me. (Without the rabid and divisive name calling language of course - I think that this is part of the problem).

I am interested to see what stats are data the government are using to claim that these kind of measures are necessary. And most importantly, how long they are necessary for.

 

[The Clamp]

It’s remarkable to me that there are still people refusing the vaccine. There is a surge at the moment of people, young and old who refused the vaccination who are now in Hospital with Covid.
I guess they thought it didn’t apply to them and so they decided to convince themselves they were super-immune.
I imagine most people who don’t get vaccinated are the sort of people that can’t even get their shit together enough to post a letter and that the main reason they haven’t done it is because they are too flaky to make and attend an appointment.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

This is the part that is concerning me. (Without the rabid and divisive name calling language of course - I think that this is part of the problem).

I am interested to see what stats are data the government are using to claim that these kind of measures are necessary. And most importantly, how long they are necessary for.

Well they are rabid in the way they talk about people who won't get vaxxed, you can see they way they describe these people they are mentally frothing at the mouth when talking about it.

The only way to counter this is for the double vaxxed people like us to stand up and call them out on it.

I'm eligible for a booster already, some of these crack pots calling for people to be shunned from society got their first one months after I got my final one done and here they are pontificating to others like they were first in line to get a jab, total frauds.

And that's the situation at present, the crack pots and authoritarians on both sides of a coin and in the middle is the normal reasonable people just thinking WTF is going on.

The biggest question is how do they think they will implement it.

I've seen people using plenty of different ways to get around any methods they think will stop people being part of society.

No doubt the Government will be hoping the rabid vaxxers become little informants and act as the Stasi's ears and eyes.

If they think the Police are going to keep enforcing their laws they'll be in for a shock too.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

It’s remarkable to me that there are still people refusing the vaccine. There is a surge at the moment of people, young and old who refused the vaccination who are now in Hospital with Covid.
I guess they thought it didn’t apply to them and so they decided to convince themselves they were super-immune.
I imagine most people who don’t get vaccinated are the sort of people that can’t even get their shit together enough to post a letter and that the main reason they haven’t done it is because they are too flaky to make and attend an appointment.

So no different to the billions of people who already don't take medical advice for hundreds of different things who ultimately end up at the Drs or hospitalised.

Don't smoke, don't drink too much, don't take drugs, don't ingest too much sugar, don't speed, don't gamble, don't eat this, don't eat that.

I'm betting plenty of the wowsers who have been vaxxed ignore medical advice themselves all the time.

 

[Dibdab]

If 85-90% of people are vaccinated and hundreds of thousands of people are still catching covd weekly at what point do we ask does the vaccine stop transmission? clearly not. When the vaccine clearly spreads rapidly still in the vaccinated why does it matter if a few % dont take it? the only difference is they get a bit more ill? Why the desperation to demonise? What kind of ego massaging does it serve? The lunatics have taken over the asylum and are driving yet more conflict amongst us. Why cant people step back and really see the picture? Why cant we treat each other with love and kindness? It really isnt going to make a jot difference to the covid scenario treating unvaxxed like parriahs. I am vaxxed btw.

I expect Harry Wilsons tackle will be along with his pomposity to shout me down any moment. Or maybe I'll even get the joy of going on his ignore list which he'll do his usual declare to NSC with more joy than a Brighton victory over Palace like anyone actually gives a **** lololol.

https://fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/

 

[n1 gull]

Well they are rabid in the way they talk about people who won't get vaxxed, you can see they way they describe these people they are mentally frothing at the mouth when talking about it.

The only way to counter this is for the double vaxxed people like us to stand up and call them out on it.

I'm eligible for a booster already, some of these crack pots calling for people to be shunned from society got their first one months after I got my final one done and here they are pontificating to others like they were first in line to get a jab, total frauds.

And that's the situation at present, the crack pots and authoritarians on both sides of a coin and in the middle is the normal reasonable people just thinking WTF is going on.

The biggest question is how do they think they will implement it.

I've seen people using plenty of different ways to get around any methods they think will stop people being part of society.

No doubt the Government will be hoping the rabid vaxxers become little informants and act as the Stasi's ears and eyes.

If they think the Police are going to keep enforcing their laws they'll be in for a shock too.

I agree with every word.

Lynch mobs always think they are virtuous but at the end of the day a mob is just a mob

 

[Fred Oliver - Legend]

I'm not anti Vax, I'm very pro Vax, but I chose not to have the vaccine because at the time it felt like the best decision. That was a personal choice and nothing to do with Mr Simmons. Where we are now in the pandemic, there is no longer any need for me to get it.

Essentially I don't appreciate being branded an enemy by a bloke being all shouty about an issue that he wouldn't have been so shouty about when he wasn't an at risk group.

What a ****

 

[The Clamp]

So no different to the billions of people who already don't take medical advice for hundreds of different things who ultimately end up at the Drs or hospitalised.

Don't smoke, don't drink too much, don't take drugs, don't ingest too much sugar, don't speed, don't gamble, don't eat this, don't eat that.

I'm betting plenty of the wowsers who have been vaxxed ignore medical advice themselves all the time.

That analogy simply doesn't bear scrutiny. With the exception of smoking and possibly speeding, none of those choices will directly affect anyone else's health. Covid kills others because of the choices people make. They also don't overwhelm hospitals and put the lives of NHS staff on the line. Nor do they risk sending an entire country back into lockdown, putting millions of people's jobs, businesses and sanity on the line.

I have already said I respect people's decision not to get vaccinated. Doesn't mean I respect people who refuse to get vaccinated. Manly because it's about the most selfish thing one can do in 2021.

 

[n1 gull]

That analogy simply doesn't bear scrutiny. With the exception of smoking and possibly speeding, none of those choices will directly affect anyone else's health. Covid kills others because of the choices people make. They also don't overwhelm hospitals and put the lives of NHS staff on the line. Nor do they risk sending an entire country back into lockdown, putting millions of people's jobs, businesses and sanity on the line.

I have already said I respect people's decision not to get vaccinated. Doesn't mean I respect people who refuse to get vaccinated. Manly because it's about the most selfish thing one can do in 2021.

Obesity costs the NHS £4.2 billion a year and without urgent and radical action, this will rise to £10 billion a year by 2050.

This is a Government stat

 

[The Clamp]

Obesity costs the NHS £4.2 billion a year and without urgent and radical action, this will rise to £10 billion a year by 2050.

This is a Government stat

Yes, I imagine that sounds about right. I’m not sure of the relevance? Is it overwhelming wards and killing nurses?

I don’t think being obese is a good thing either.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Well they are rabid in the way they talk about people who won't get vaxxed, you can see they way they describe these people they are mentally frothing at the mouth when talking about it.

The only way to counter this is for the double vaxxed people like us to stand up and call them out on it.

I'm eligible for a booster already, some of these crack pots calling for people to be shunned from society got their first one months after I got my final one done and here they are pontificating to others like they were first in line to get a jab, total frauds.

And that's the situation at present, the crack pots and authoritarians on both sides of a coin and in the middle is the normal reasonable people just thinking WTF is going on.

The biggest question is how do they think they will implement it.

I've seen people using plenty of different ways to get around any methods they think will stop people being part of society.

No doubt the Government will be hoping the rabid vaxxers become little informants and act as the Stasi's ears and eyes.

If they think the Police are going to keep enforcing their laws they'll be in for a shock too.

I agree with every word.

Lynch mobs always think they are virtuous but at the end of the day a mob is just a mob

Lynch mobs? There aren't mobs of vaccinated people seeking out the unvaccinated and throwing them physically under a needle. There are, however, plenty of instances of anti-vaxxers picketing vaccine centres and intimidating the vulnerable, including the old, sick and teenagers.

If you think having your selfishness pointed out on the internet is "lynch mob" you must be a very delicate flower indeed.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I'm not anti Vax, I'm very pro Vax, but I chose not to have the vaccine because at the time it felt like the best decision. That was a personal choice and nothing to do with Mr Simmons. Where we are now in the pandemic, there is no longer any need for me to get it.

Essentially I don't appreciate being branded an enemy by a bloke being all shouty about an issue that he wouldn't have been so shouty about when he wasn't an at risk group.

That makes no sense at all.

If you are pro vaxx then you should understand all the benefits of it, including the benefits to others. What harm could getting vaccinated actually do to you?

 

[BadFish]

Well they are rabid in the way they talk about people who won't get vaxxed, you can see they way they describe these people they are mentally frothing at the mouth when talking about it.

The only way to counter this is for the double vaxxed people like us to stand up and call them out on it.

I'm eligible for a booster already, some of these crack pots calling for people to be shunned from society got their first one months after I got my final one done and here they are pontificating to others like they were first in line to get a jab, total frauds.

And that's the situation at present, the crack pots and authoritarians on both sides of a coin and in the middle is the normal reasonable people just thinking WTF is going on.

The biggest question is how do they think they will implement it.

I've seen people using plenty of different ways to get around any methods they think will stop people being part of society.

No doubt the Government will be hoping the rabid vaxxers become little informants and act as the Stasi's ears and eyes.

If they think the Police are going to keep enforcing their laws they'll be in for a shock too.

As ever it seems like the extremes on both sides are being somewhat rabid. As I say I believe that the answer to this stuff is for those in the center to encourage talking and listening. Generalisations about how people are behaving in this discussion is counter productive for me. Divisive and counter productive.

 

[Brighton & Love]

Lynch mobs? There aren't mobs of vaccinated people seeking out the unvaccinated and throwing them physically under a needle. .

totally unaware of yourself aren't you?

 

[Guinness Boy]

totally unaware of yourself aren't you?

You seem a bit stressed. Go and give Rosa a cuddle.

 

[Brighton & Love]

You seem a bit stressed. Go and give Rosa a cuddle.

You're clearly the only one stressed here. You wouldn't need to use defamation tactics otherwise.

My advice would be to take a step back (like moderators do) meditate and stop being a bellend.