[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[Zeberdi]

I am not suggesting that the IDF are deliberately beheading anyone and I don't believe Bassem Youssef is either. All I am saying - and that the Caitlin Johnstone article suggests - is that decapitation can happen when you drop bombs on people. That the decapitation occurs without the deliberate wielding of a sword, but can happen when someone presses a button in an aircraft or remotely operates a drone doesn't make it OK.

Due to the lack of a news media presence, all we have to make a judgement on these events is video evidence from either Gazan citizens, Gazan/Al Jazeera journalists or statements issued by the IDF. Sometimes we get to see drone footage either broadcast by the IDF, or captured drone footage broadcast by Gazans themselves. The media tend to steer clear of video evidence by Gazans / non-Western journalists, unless it forms part of an evidence-based report, for example, the BBC Verify article on the Aid Convoy attack on the 28th February. In this particular case, the BBC found that the video evidence was compelling and that the Israeli forces were responsible for the killing of at least 112 people seeking aid, while Mark Regev, the Israeli spokesman flat out denied Israeli involvement. Another BBC Verify report also debunks Israeli statements covering up the killing of the World Central Kitchen aid workers at the beginning of April.

My point is that the sophisticated, state-manufactured propaganda from one side outweighs and gets vastly more coverage in the media than the propaganda from the other. I haven't yet seen anyone from Hamas on the BBC/Sky etc, but those from the Israeli side are constantly given an airing - and their statements are, with a few notable exceptions, treated with the greatest respect by broadcasters. And in respect of both the propaganda war and that of the battlefield, it's very much a tale of David and Goliath. However unlike in the Bible, Israel is cast as the latter however much they would like to be seen to be the former.

All true - I was just pointing out that ”Decapitation“ in common parlance means deliberate beheading with a blade - To post tweets talking about the “decapitation of babies” from the bombing is meant to incite a certain response . These tweets about Rafah are deliberately meant to convey an image of Israel (the IDF ) decapitating babies in the way Hamas were accused of doing so on October 7. The tweet I posted even conflates the two.

Re the news reports - there is a reason the Israeli government and the IDF don't allow reporters into Gaza - because they don't want the real evidence of genocide and war crimes by the IDF getting out.

Of course.

However- Real evidence that points to genocide and war crimes IS getting out - There are Palestinian journalists in Gaza working for Western news syndicates who are getting news out - it is how the BBC/Reuters/ARP are sourcing much of the news. Yes - It is foreign journalists that have no or limited (IDF controlled access). I posted several articles on here last month detailing exactly that - they have to go where the IDF wants them to and can not report anything that would be ‘against’ Israel - (Which is why Al Jazeera has been banned from Israel)

The Palestinian journalists providing news to Western media agencies are probably quite reliable though and are usually fact checked quite carefully - problem is they are getting arrested and shot for their efforts - (no one much on here seemed to care when I posted that some months back )

However, as far as tweets about “decapitated kids’ - That babies and children died from an air attack on a refugee camp is horrific enough without tweets like this trying to conjure up ISIS-like images to describe the IDF’s behaviour.

And we can do without complete and utter BS like this from Netanyahu too …

Deadly strike on Rafah a tragic mishap, Netanyahu says

Scores were killed in the camp for displaced Palestinians which Israel says targeted "senior Hamas terrorists".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[knocky1]

The Hove constituency election is going to be interesting.

Peter Kyle, a vice chair of the Labour Friends of Israel, and an independent pro Palestinian rights candidate. I think he will still win but she’s going to take votes off him and will reduce his majority. With the latest developments in Gaza, I will not be voting for him.

Same here. Tanushka Marah

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The Hove constituency election is going to be interesting.

Peter Kyle, a vice chair of the Labour Friends of Israel, and an independent pro Palestinian rights candidate. I think he will still win but she’s going to take votes off him and will reduce his majority. With the latest developments in Gaza, I will not be voting for him.

Thank you - didn't know this info. One less vote for Peter Kyle now.

 

[FIVESTEPS]

Some people will be along shortly to say that bringing attention to this atrocity is anti-Semitic as you didn't also condemn Hamas in the post.

 

[POP_TONEZ]

Or at least questioning the referral to “decapitated babies” in that tweet and these

Khaled Beydoun on Instagram: "The Rafah Tent Massacre 5 Beheaded Babies. Their heads severed and bodies burned. Their fathers holding up their headless bodies. For the whole world to see. There are no more red lines. Babies’ bodies split in tw

180K likes, 2,694 comments - khaledbeydoun on May 26, 2024: "The Rafah Tent Massacre 5 Beheaded Babies. Their heads severed and bodies burned. Their fathers holding up their headless bodies. For...".

www.instagram.com

Omar Suleiman on Instagram‎: "Israel’s response to the ICJ’s ruling? Absolute carnage and beheaded children caused by several 2,000 lb bombs dropped on civilians and UN compounds in Rafah. Every accusation is a confession. حسبنا الله ونعم الوكيل"‎

32K likes, 688 comments - imamomarsuleiman on May 26, 2024: "Israel’s response to the ICJ’s ruling? Absolute carnage and beheaded children caused by several 2,000 lb bombs dropped on civilians a...".

www.instagram.com

The news, at least what is managing to get out of the Israeli news embargoed area of Rafah, is horrific but hyperbolic insta messages of descriptions that refer to ”decapitated babies” need to be fact checked by independent sources - there is a possibility that ‘reports’/descriptions of “headless babies” is pro-Hamas propaganda deliberately trying to draw parallels with their barbaric massacre on 7/10 and designed to stir up hatred amongst the innocent civilians of Gaza against Israel - as if the complete destruction of life saving infrastructure, incessant bombing, mass killing of children and enforced starvation were not enough to radicalise the next generation.

‘Charred bodies, dismembered limbs’: Israel bombs Rafah camp killing dozens

Israel bombs tent camp housing displaced Palestinians, leading to a huge blaze and killing dozens of people.

www.aljazeera.com

Unfortunately there is a video of the headless baby. It’s all over twitter. Don’t watch it.

 

[POP_TONEZ]

All true - I was just pointing out that ”Decapitation“ in common parlance means deliberate beheading with a blade - To post tweets talking about the “decapitation of babies” from the bombing is meant to incite a certain response . These tweets about Rafah are deliberately meant to convey an image of Israel (the IDF ) decapitating babies in the way Hamas were accused of doing so on October 7. The tweet I posted even conflates the two.


Of course.

However- Real evidence that points to genocide and war crimes IS getting out - There are Palestinian journalists in Gaza working for Western news syndicates who are getting news out - it is how the BBC/Reuters/ARP are sourcing much of the news. Yes - It is foreign journalists that have no or limited (IDF controlled access). I posted several articles on here last month detailing exactly that - they have to go where the IDF wants them to and can not report anything that would be ‘against’ Israel - (Which is why Al Jazeera has been banned from Israel)

The Palestinian journalists providing news to Western media agencies are probably quite reliable though and are usually fact checked quite carefully - problem is they are getting arrested and shot for their efforts - (no one much on here seemed to care when I posted that some months back )

However, as far as tweets about “decapitated kids’ - That babies and children died from an air attack on a refugee camp is horrific enough without tweets like this trying to conjure up ISIS-like images to describe the IDF’s behaviour.

View attachment 183052


And we can do without complete and utter BS like this from Netanyahu too …

Deadly strike on Rafah a tragic mishap, Netanyahu says

Scores were killed in the camp for displaced Palestinians which Israel says targeted "senior Hamas terrorists".

www.bbc.co.uk

Fine the child was beheaded and not decapitated. Why does it matter? It happened, a bomb blew the head off a child, there is not point arguing over semantics.

 

[:J)]

All true - I was just pointing out that ”Decapitation“ in common parlance means deliberate beheading with a blade - To post tweets talking about the “decapitation of babies” from the bombing is meant to incite a certain response . These tweets about Rafah are deliberately meant to convey an image of Israel (the IDF ) decapitating babies in the way Hamas were accused of doing so on October 7. The tweet I posted even conflates the two.


Of course.

However- Real evidence that points to genocide and war crimes IS getting out - There are Palestinian journalists in Gaza working for Western news syndicates who are getting news out - it is how the BBC/Reuters/ARP are sourcing much of the news. Yes - It is foreign journalists that have no or limited (IDF controlled access). I posted several articles on here last month detailing exactly that - they have to go where the IDF wants them to and can not report anything that would be ‘against’ Israel - (Which is why Al Jazeera has been banned from Israel)

The Palestinian journalists providing news to Western media agencies are probably quite reliable though and are usually fact checked quite carefully - problem is they are getting arrested and shot for their efforts - (no one much on here seemed to care when I posted that some months back )

However, as far as tweets about “decapitated kids’ - That babies and children died from an air attack on a refugee camp is horrific enough without tweets like this trying to conjure up ISIS-like images to describe the IDF’s behaviour.

View attachment 183052


And we can do without complete and utter BS like this from Netanyahu too …

Deadly strike on Rafah a tragic mishap, Netanyahu says

Scores were killed in the camp for displaced Palestinians which Israel says targeted "senior Hamas terrorists".

www.bbc.co.uk

You're right, words are important, and we maybe need another word to describe the removal of a person's head when struck by a bomb.

We should also be careful not to 'gatekeep' the eyewitness accounts. I've seen way too many interviews on the BBC, Sky and on other channels where the interviewers have been incredibly insensitive to the experiences of Palestinian accounts of the bloodshed that has been happening to their people. Talking over them and insisting again and again, that they need to hear Israel's side of the story or the "Israel claim that they always take care not to target the civilian population" BS. Taking the Instagram post you have quoted above - how should the author have expressed himself to honour the dead babies? Expressing ones emotions is tricky, and even more so in a second language. The words used here don't scream out at me that the IDF have done this with their own hands. The author doesn't even mention an aggressor. "There are no more red lines" is a reasonable statement. Biden has claimed that if Israel were to send troops into Rafah then that would be a red line, and that particular red line has been transgressed. And asking for public outcry is also reasonable. Too many people, including heads of state and public figures have been silent. So the only tricky word - to my mind - is 'beheaded'. It's quite far removed from the depictions of 40 beheaded babies - with no evidence - that the discredited ZAKA were hawking to the press in early October last year. The only difference between the two, is that there is actual visual evidence (not that I've seen it) in this most recent atrocity.

And while we're on the subject of words - and their importance. You mentioned journalists getting shot. True - but they were also 'killed'. Over 100 now.

 

[Zeberdi]

So the only tricky word - to my mind - is 'beheaded'. It's quite far removed from the depictions of 40 beheaded babies - with no evidence - that the discredited ZAKA were hawking to the press in early October last year. The only difference between the two, is that there is actual visual evidence (not that I've seen it) in this most recent atrocity.

And while we're on the subject of words - and their importance. You mentioned journalists getting shot. True - but they were also 'killed'. Over 100 now.

Please stop lecturing me about what’s happening in Gaza and Israel. You are preaching to the converted.

As for the Insta post reporting 5 “beheaded babies’ - There is no evidence that the IDF ‘beheaded’ babies.

Of course when bombs are dropped on people, their limbs are torn off - that goes without saying.

I’ll leave you with @Bozza’s response to the interpretation of ‘decapitated’ that he wrote in post # 650. I’m inclined to agree:

Again - back off and back down.

You are arguing semantics.

I think it's fair to say that when most people read of "decapitation" they interpret that as intentional and deliberate cutting off of a head with a bladed instrument. You didn't. You were misinterpreted. Let it go.

If you carry on you'll be removed from this thread and/or the site completely.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Nice of Hamas to lob missiles at Tel Aviv, knowing exactly what the response would be. Hamas are the Palestinians worst enemy

 

[aolstudios]

Nice of Hamas to lob missiles at Tel Aviv, knowing exactly what the response would be. Hamas are the Palestinians worst enemy

Yep. Cynically & deliberately.
The more Palestinian dead the better. They've said so, regularly

 

[Zeberdi]

Fantastic news - won’t make much difference in the short term but will help to drive the focus toward a political settlement

Gaza war: Spain, Ireland and Norway formally recognise Palestinian state

The three European nations aim to refocus attention on finding a political solution to the Gaza war.

www.bbc.co.uk