aolstudios
Well-known member
Hamas absolutely do not want a 2 state solution. They want a one state solution, with Jews wiped out. As repeatedly stated
[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel
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- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,965
Nor does Netanyahu- so what is your point?
And who is currently closer to implementing their version of a one state ‘solution’ over the other?
Some political commentators say: “The real obstacle [to a two state solution] has been Netanyahu, who has been in power for nearly half the time since the Oslo accords were signed. He has said for years he will never permit a Palestinian State and set about killing off the peace agreement from the beginning. Three decades later, he’s closer to his goal than ever.”
The two-state solution has been a diplomatic failure. It’s also still the best answer we’ve got | Israel | The Guardian
The real obstacle has been Benjamin Netanyahu, who has been in power for nearly half the time since the idea was floated, says Chris McGreal, who writes for Guardian US
amp.theguardian.com
aolstudios
Well-known member
Netanyahu is one man, who can be democratically replaced & as you've said several times, will be soon.Nor does Netanyahu- so what is your point?
And who is currently closer to implementing their version of a one state ‘solution’ over the other?
Some political commentators say: “The real obstacle [to a two state solution] has been Netanyahu, who has been in power for nearly half the time since the Oslo accords were signed. He has said for years he will never permit a Palestinian State and set about killing off the peace agreement from the beginning. Three decades later, he’s closer to his goal than ever.”
The two-state solution has been a diplomatic failure. It’s also still the best answer we’ve got | Israel | The Guardian
The real obstacle has been Benjamin Netanyahu, who has been in power for nearly half the time since the idea was floated, says Chris McGreal, who writes for Guardian US
Hamas control absolutely every last thing in Gaza & are committed to killing every last Jew.
Some crucial differences there
Not at the moment he can't given he's refusing to hold elections. He'll keep extending this war for as long as he needs to cling to power.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,965
Yes, true but as @Westdene Seagull says; Netanyahu will not call an election (or will be forced to) while Israel is at war with Gaza, so by refusing ceasefires/any peace deal, the ongoing war ensures he clings on to power - by the time he is ousted from power, it will be too late for tens of thousands of Palestinians- ironically he will not call a ceasefire in Gaza is because of the Religious Zionists who are keeping him in power - Extremist political parties who very much have an agenda of a One State solution and forced evacuations of Palestinians from the Occupied Territories.
It is the Religious Zionists eg Ben Gvir of the Otzma Yehudit party which is anti-Arab and has Kahanism as its founding philosophy ( see wiki) that is the driving force behind Netanyahu’s continuing agenda in Gaza and the most recent ground invasion commencing in Rafah. These are just as violent and extremist as Hamas and are currently holding the Prime Minister of Israel by his political balls.
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Israel rejecting just one? What about these:
Netanyahu rules out ceasefire deal that would mean Gaza withdrawal
Israeli PM also says he will not accept any truce that would require release of thousands of Palestinian prisoners
www.theguardian.com
Middle East crisis: Netanyahu rejects Hamas ceasefire proposal and vows to fight until ‘total victory’
Israeli PM says Israel is on its way to a ‘decisive’ victory, adding that it is ‘in our hands … in a matter of months’
www.theguardian.com
and this - which includes a handy timeline of Hamas truce proposals:
How Israel has repeatedly rejected Hamas truce offers
On Sunday, Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu turned down a Hamas offer to end the war. It’s only the latest such instance.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,965
Just to revert to this earlier point - Biden admits that US weapons have been used to kill civilians in Gaza. In a move widely seen as Biden not wanting to risk further alienating Democratic supporters (especially the student vote which will be critical in key marginal States) over Israel:
The US confirms;
Arms shipment to Israel that would have been used to further Israel’s ground attack and arial bombardment of Rafah have been ’held’ up and further arms embargoes would go ahead if Israel insists on invading Rafah.
“The weapons being held back by the US are related to a future delivery, so the move is unlikely to have an immediate impact. But given the rate at which Israel is bombing it will probably affect future strikes fairly soon.”
This is significant and welcome development from the US imo and represents a growing amount of clear blue sky between the US and Israel over policy on Gaza in particular Rafah, which is a high density, population centre of over 1.4 million refugees, half of them under 18. This will also keep Hamas at the negotiating table who have said ‘all ceasefire deals are off’ if Israel proceeds with this ground incursion of Rafah.
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armchairclubber
Well-known member
Well this is certainly welcome and significant and some admission by the U.S., if rather too late imo.
I've still not heard of any similar action from the UK government or pressure from opposition front bench to revoke UK arms licences to Israel? Similarly other European nations, it would appear US are actually leading the way in this (admittedly being the major provider)
It would still have been significant imo for other nations to have initiated this policy, or even now to follow suit. It's good to know that protests may have had some influence.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,965
Me too but credit where credit is due - fancy the Israeli Government knowing exactly how many terrorists they have killed but no idea of the number of civilian casualties - or they know but aren’t saying. If the IDF is apparently so good at avoiding civilian casualties, then let’s have the number if they are saying Hamas’s figures are false. No journalists allowed into Gaza ( except accompanied by the IDF to selected areas) and spouting complete lies on world media, does Israel really think it is winning the media and PR battle here by continually spouting this bollix ?
Another non-liker of Morgan but really, how stupid are the Israeli government or more to the point, how stupid do they think the rest of the world really are ?? Utter lies - they KNOW how many CIVILIANS ( Children and Women ) they've murdered but are too cowardly to admit it. I don't have the words to describe my hatred of both the Israeli government and the IDF.
Utter racist pillock ( him, not you ! ). So it's OK to carve the state of Israel out of other states but not to do so for Palestine ? Just shows the true mind set of the Israeli state.
We’re watching a nation become a pariah in front of our very eyes, the speed at which this has happened is extraordinary
Machiavelli
Well-known member
You're absolutely right on this, and it needs to be acknowledged.
But, then again, Israel absolutely don't want a two state solution. They want a one state solution, with Palestinians wiped out. And they're brilliantly effective at it. We're at about 30 to 1 in the current conflagration.
And, back to the one state issue. There is one state. And then there's one that contains a people, but isn't recognised as a state, which explains how they've been utterly humiliated by its neighbour over the past half century and more.
aolstudios
Well-known member
They did in 1948 & they refused it. Preferring to attempt to wipe out the Jews (they lost). It was offered to Arafat & others several times since. Refused every single time. Mind want to swot up on your history a little
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,965
I think you need to. That’s a very revisionist idea of history you’re posting.
The actual history has been posted numerous times on this thread yet you keep posting erroneous information.
So again;
The Balfour Declaration is widely seen as the precursor to the 1948 Palestinian Nakba when Zionist armed groups, who were trained by the British, forcibly expelled more than 750,000 Palestinians from their homeland. How can people being violently thrown off their land by Jewish terrorists, that they had occupied for centuries, including with access to the River Jordan for fresh water, then be expected to cram into a piece of land the size of greater London that was basically a piece of desert?
Of course the Zionist ‘project’ was not welcomed by the indigenous Palestinians living on the land but they had no equivalent to the leadership that the Jews and British had in order to negotiate themselves a better deal...and they’ve been conceding land ever since with an insidious programme of Jewish settlements making increasing degrees of incursions into Palestinian territory. In 1967, Israel invaded the rest of the Palestinian territory and remains an illegal occupier, keeping Palestinians people under an oppressive form of control which had lead to an humanitarian crisis even before the current war broke out.
Arafat and his PLO was party to the Oslo Accords in 1993, which acknowledged the right of Israel to exist, laid down their arms, were taken off the terror designation and set up the Palestinian Authority with the understanding that Israel would commit to a long term plan for a two State solution and in the meantime, the West Bank (with East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip would be administered by Arafat‘s pro-West ruling parliament. Yitzhak Rabin who brokered the deal with Arafat (and the US) was subsequently assassinated by a far right Religious Zionist who had no wish to see Palestinians being offered Statehood. Netanyahu backed Hamas to control Arafat and the Palestinian Authority so it wouldn’t become too powerful. The rest is history.
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Watched the "Zone of Interest" last night. Incredibly powerful movie and skillfully handled without being gratuitous.
Not equating the Holocaust to what's happening in Gaza but the film really highlights how humans are capable of the most unimaginably atrocious acts if their own indoctrination and also the dehumanisation of "the other" is powerful enough.
Not equating the Holocaust to what's happening in Gaza but the film really highlights how humans are capable of the most unimaginably atrocious acts if their own indoctrination and also the dehumanisation of "the other" is powerful enough.